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いまの世の中は、交流の場が減ってきていますよね。買い物も、1人で行って1人で完結して帰ってくるシングルタスクになっています。",{},{"id":233,"type":59,"data":234,"tunes":236},"dteeyK7lfn",{"text":235,"align":62},"サービスとしては、困りごとの解決だけでは限界が来るんです。どれだけ「買い物をしなくても、毎日来たくなる場所」になれるか。知らない方同士でもちょっと井戸端っぽさを感じられる場を、意図してつくっています。",{},{"id":238,"type":59,"data":239,"tunes":241},"PZtwV-x9ne",{"text":240,"align":62},"\u003Cb>―― その体験の密度が、「生産性」につながっていく。\u003C/b>",{},{"id":243,"type":59,"data":244,"tunes":246},"dS7O-F9_2R",{"text":245,"align":62},"\u003Cb>門奈：\u003C/b> 一見関係なく見えて、実はかなり大事で。交流の場、滞在時間、良質な行動ログがプロダクトの資産として溜まっていて、それをもとに、たとえば商品のレコメンドのような事業活動がモデルとして成立している。",{},{"id":248,"type":59,"data":249,"tunes":251},"SsOdBap_Dm",{"text":250,"align":62},"労働集約型じゃないし、価値提供と事業活動が同じベクトルでそろっている。これが、生産性を高める土台です。ちょうど先日のIVS2026（国内最大級のスタートアップカンファレンス）にて南場さんの講演でも発表がありましたが、1人あたりの売上総利益を算出したら、（月1,300万円の）年換算で約1.6億円でした。",{},{"id":253,"type":59,"data":254,"tunes":256},"k9wy6ikqtK",{"text":255,"align":62},"\u003Cb>小川： 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\u003C/b>違う会社なのに、いい意味でカルチャーギャップがなくて。自分らしく仕事をさせてもらえています。DeNAでいう「ことに向かう」みたいなことを、息を吸うように無意識に、カウシェの皆さんがやっている。変化への渇望、柔軟性、そこへ向かうスピード感も、ギャップがない。",{},{"id":285,"type":59,"data":286,"tunes":288},"Dvlp_ihlWB",{"text":287,"align":62},"なんならスピードに関しては、振り落とされないよう日々アジャストが必要なほど、カウシェのほうが速いと率直に感じます。総じて言うと「プレッシャーだけど、ノンストレス」。",{},{"id":290,"type":59,"data":291,"tunes":293},"Id7ZZd6zkc",{"text":292,"align":62},"\u003Cb>―― DeNAからは、どんな人が、どんな役割で来ているんでしょう。\u003C/b>",{},{"id":295,"type":59,"data":296,"tunes":298},"Sb5zay3HXb",{"text":297,"align":62},"\u003Cb>小川： \u003C/b>領域はさまざまで、プロダクト開発の企画・分析、デザイナー・エンジニア、プロダクトマーケティング、採用・人事など。年次は、若手もいればシニアもいます。",{},{"id":300,"type":59,"data":301,"tunes":303},"I0qRAqJDLt",{"text":302,"align":62},"そういえば、僕からも、門奈さんに聞いてみたかったんですよ。「DeNAから来ている人たちを、どう感じていますか」って。",{},{"id":305,"type":59,"data":306,"tunes":308},"cJ3fyJO2Up",{"text":307,"align":62},"\u003Cb>門奈： \u003C/b>求めていたのは、プロダクト・エンジニアリングのリソース支援と、知見の支援。とりわけ、さきほどの良質な行動ログが効く領域は機械学習との相性が良く、その専門人材にも来てほしかった。実際、皆さんが深いところに入って活躍していて、会社の変化を起こす大きな一手になったと感じています。",{},{"id":310,"type":104,"data":311,"tunes":313},"3C5Qlu8cI9",{"text":312,"level":34},"門奈氏はDeNAのどこに未来を見たか。スタートアップが「テック大企業」と組む意味",{},{"id":315,"type":59,"data":316,"tunes":318},"I_5VUHo-0n",{"text":317,"align":62},"\u003Cb>―― DeNAへの印象は、昔と今でどう変わりました？\u003C/b>",{},{"id":320,"type":59,"data":321,"tunes":323},"-e1iTpU7JC",{"text":322,"align":62},"\u003Cb>門奈： \u003C/b>正直、昔は武闘派のイメージが強かったです。「やるかやられるか」みたいな（笑）。でも皆さんと、ことに向かいながら融合していく過程で、印象は変わってきました。",{},{"id":325,"type":59,"data":326,"tunes":328},"kT0BpOaudk",{"text":327,"align":62},"実は、カウシェの約6年の歴史の初期から、コアメンバーにDeNA出身の方が結構いたんですよ。10〜20人規模のうち数名がDeNA出身で、直接来てくれた方もいましたし、他社を経てきてくれた方もいました。",{},{"id":330,"type":59,"data":331,"tunes":333},"c4CtG9-c9t",{"text":332,"align":62},"そんなご縁もあったうえに、会社としてまだ何もないところから、DeNAグループでスタートアップ投資を手がけるベンチャーキャピタル「デライト・ベンチャーズ（Delight Ventures）」を通じて南場さんに注目していただいて。スタートアップ界でも珍しい3度の投資をしていただき、そこからDeNA本体側で投資・事業開発を統括する住吉さんと議論を重ね、2026年3月に資本業務提携の発表に至りました。",{},{"id":335,"type":59,"data":336,"tunes":338},"gw99n7o569",{"text":337,"align":62},"スタートアップ業界でDeNA出身のファウンダー・CEOが増えていることからも、DeNAは武闘派というより、“起業家を輩出する会社”なんだ、と映るようになりました。",{},{"id":340,"type":59,"data":341,"tunes":343},"DpEukNGdeD",{"text":342,"align":62},"スタートアップが、テック大企業の資産・人材・データを積みながら、身軽に機動的に飛んでいく。それが本当に実現するかもしれない。もしかしたら、それが南場さんの狙っていることなのかもしれないな、というのが現在地です。",{},{"id":345,"type":91,"data":346,"tunes":355},"0_y263C9r-",{"caption":7,"asset":347},{"id":348,"file":349},"42Yf9Bs1d8mgQY4b0hIZOX",{"url":350,"details":351,"fileName":354},"//images.ctfassets.net/7mrdlclm9xss/42Yf9Bs1d8mgQY4b0hIZOX/294b2544aca6488c80cddaf41f3a9899/260617_302_resized.jpg",{"size":352,"image":353},130370,{"width":49,"height":50},"260617_302_resized.jpg",{},{"id":357,"type":104,"data":358,"tunes":360},"yIE88_YM7D",{"text":359,"level":34},"「クオリティが伴ったスピードが命」。カウシェの採用が選ぶ、爪痕を残す人材",{},{"id":362,"type":59,"data":363,"tunes":365},"voycCmwqg1",{"text":364,"align":62},"\u003Cb>―― 採用を預かる立場として、カウシェに「合う人」「合わない人」は。\u003C/b>",{},{"id":367,"type":59,"data":368,"tunes":370},"m4QKjkEJ3Z",{"text":369,"align":62},"\u003Cb>小川：\u003C/b> 大きく抽象化すると2つで。1つは、スピード。それも、「雑でもいいから速く」じゃなくて、「クオリティへのこだわりは一切妥協しない」人。",{},{"id":372,"type":59,"data":373,"tunes":375},"Z7ShabmUzv",{"text":374,"align":62},"2ヶ月後には事業の状況が全然変わる。そのダイナミックさの中では、組織も個人もそのスピードでやらないと成り立たない。これまで培ってきた知見を活かしつつも、「今のままの自分じゃダメだ」というマインド。ある方には桃源郷だし、アンマッチを感じる方もいると思います。",{},{"id":377,"type":59,"data":378,"tunes":380},"JTDXKhhFbr",{"text":379,"align":62},"もう1つは、「この勝ち馬に乗りたい」だと多分合わない。そうじゃなくて、「自分たちが世の中に爪痕を残すんだ」、という気概を持つ人が合うと思います。",{},{"id":382,"type":59,"data":383,"tunes":385},"HEkntYP_1t",{"text":384,"align":62},"\u003Cb>門奈：\u003C/b> 僕からも聞いてみたかったんですけど、小川さん自身は、カウシェへの出向の話を聞いたとき、どう感じたんですか？",{},{"id":387,"type":59,"data":388,"tunes":390},"Csw2Q4ZVlR",{"text":389,"align":62},"\u003Cb>小川： \u003C/b>新卒入社からずっとDeNAにいて、カウシェのことは輪の中で耳にはしていました。でも、名前は知っていたけれど、なぜそんなにホットなのかまでは理解していなかった。",{},{"id":392,"type":59,"data":393,"tunes":395},"z2aFLrhN3G",{"text":394,"align":62},"去年、住吉さんから「社内どころか日本で一番おもろいプロダクトがある」とお声をいただいたんです。ただ正直、出向の話をもらった時点では「二つ返事でやります」とはなっていませんでした。カウシェを自分で触っていくなかで、「確かによくできている」とは思ったけど、「なんでこんなに伸びるのか」は、わからなかった。だからこそワクワクしました。",{},{"id":397,"type":59,"data":398,"tunes":400},"Xd-8vTqjbs",{"text":399,"align":62},"あと、僕は「何をやるか」と同じぐらい、「誰と、どんな状況でやるか」を重視するタイプなんです。門奈さんの語り口は独特で（笑）、プロダクトのどこが面白くてユニークか、そして事業が伸びる渦中で個人がどう成長していくか、その両方が立体的に伝わってくる。聞いているうちに、自然と引き込まれていきました。",{},{"id":402,"type":59,"data":403,"tunes":405},"AOWAOu19Zm",{"text":404,"align":62},"僕は、熱量の高い場を求める一方で、ストレスには強くないんです。プレッシャーも目指すものもなければ、心地よくても、いつか退屈してしまう。逆に、ストレスが過ぎれば参ってしまう。その「熱はあるのに、過度なストレスはない」という塩梅が、カウシェにはありそうだと感じたんです。",{},{"id":407,"type":59,"data":408,"tunes":410},"8seTIXMh35",{"text":409,"align":62},"\u003Cb>―― 飛び込んでみて、「想像に近かったこと」と「違ったこと」は。\u003C/b>",{},{"id":412,"type":59,"data":413,"tunes":415},"tuuqg12Ohn",{"text":414,"align":62},"\u003Cb>小川： \u003C/b>近かったのは、チームに内包された熱さ。期待以上でした。違ったのは、いい意味でDeNAとカウシェ両方の顔を持つ中での距離感です。",{},{"id":417,"type":59,"data":418,"tunes":420},"Gz9yk6UxHn",{"text":419,"align":62},"本来なら、一定の距離があるパートナーとしてドライにやる形もありえる。でも実際は、「このプロダクトをどれだけ伸ばすか」に両者でピュアに向かえている。要求すべきは要求し、できないことは「できない」と言い、できることは「こうやればできる」と返せる。一方通行じゃない。気を使う線やマナーはもちろんありますが、これほど近い体感で組めるのは想像以上でした。",{},{"id":422,"type":91,"data":423,"tunes":432},"Y89J49CvWW",{"caption":7,"asset":424},{"id":425,"file":426},"6ctHKq5SpYGpjuzL2QQLUO",{"url":427,"details":428,"fileName":431},"//images.ctfassets.net/7mrdlclm9xss/6ctHKq5SpYGpjuzL2QQLUO/14b43fc1358a662baa6a4782944644e2/260617_130_resized.jpg",{"size":429,"image":430},134986,{"width":49,"height":50},"260617_130_resized.jpg",{},{"id":434,"type":104,"data":435,"tunes":437},"v_FbDTq-HE",{"text":436,"level":34},"独立経営×DeNAアセット。門奈氏が明かす、DeNAと握手した本当の理由",{},{"id":439,"type":59,"data":440,"tunes":442},"qrwlzE7Er7",{"text":441,"align":62},"\u003Cb>―― 組む相手はほかにもいたはずです。なぜDeNAと握手したんでしょう。\u003C/b>",{},{"id":444,"type":59,"data":445,"tunes":447},"8mbN0rOO_O",{"text":446,"align":62},"\u003Cb>門奈：\u003C/b> 「なぜDeNAか」は、論理と感情の両方の話です。論理でいえば、事業シナジーもキャッシュのコミットメントも、もちろん定量で存在する。でも突き詰めると、最後はトップ同士の化学反応。少し先に見ている景色（ビュー）が合うかどうかに行き着くんですよね。やりながら立ち上がってくるパートナーシップは、このグルーヴが合うかで、長期の勝敗が決まる。",{},{"id":449,"type":59,"data":450,"tunes":452},"ToZKWSdkvF",{"text":451,"align":62},"象徴的だったのが、資本業務提携のバランス感でした。カウシェはあくまで独立した経営のまま、意思決定はほぼ僕たちに委ねられている。そのうえで、現場には濃い協働がある。「どの形がもっとも創造的なアライアンスか」を一緒に考えてくれる――ここまで来ると、もう「どこと比較するか」という話からは飛び出しています。",{},{"id":454,"type":59,"data":455,"tunes":457},"bb2KZD5wwX",{"text":456,"align":62},"正直、「大企業の人材やデータをフルに活用して、スタートアップとして身軽に飛び上がる」というのは紛れもない本音です。成熟した事業と新規の事業の“あいだ”の成長フェーズは、そう多くは転がっていない経験で、そこへ人材を送り、知見と学習を循環させる。双方にとって意味のある役回りだと思う。だから「20年後、30年後も、20人くらいの精鋭を送り続けてくださいね」という感じで（笑）。",{},{"id":459,"type":59,"data":460,"tunes":462},"iL-43hQ4J4",{"text":461,"align":62},"もしこの記事をスタートアップ業界の方が読んでくださっているなら、ぜひ、一緒に飛び込んでいく仲間を、時間をかけてでも見つけていく。その刺激になれば嬉しいです。",{},{"id":464,"type":104,"data":465,"tunes":467},"MvlvjGkJU3",{"text":466,"level":34},"「100人で1兆円」へ。カウシェ×DeNA、協業の先",{},{"id":469,"type":59,"data":470,"tunes":472},"BPVUNLe3WL",{"text":471,"align":62},"\u003Cb>―― 最後に。カウシェが「目指す姿」と、お二人にとっての「理想的な関係」を。\u003C/b>",{},{"id":474,"type":59,"data":475,"tunes":477},"c-BEjoP11A",{"text":476,"align":62},"\u003Cb>門奈： \u003C/b>僕たちは「100人で1兆円」を標榜しています。事業・ビジネスモデル・組織のスケーリング、労働集約のバランスを徹底して意識し、日本では類を見ない付加価値・生産性を生む少数精鋭の組織をつくっていく。",{},{"id":479,"type":59,"data":480,"tunes":482},"k9_k5vwzY4",{"text":481,"align":62},"起業前、僕は8年間スタートアップにいました。当時は「夢はあるが報酬は二の次」という人だけが行く世界だった。でもAIの風が吹くいま、その定説のままでは人材のプールが広がらない。「大企業や外資・コンサルのほうが条件がいい」に対して、自分たちの地力で対等な条件を出し、選んでもらえる状態をつくる。それでこそ、より多様なキャリア・ライフステージの人が入り、産業に厚みが出る。",{},{"id":484,"type":59,"data":485,"tunes":487},"HPif5-SX5_",{"text":486,"align":62},"アメリカや中国とヘッドカウントで真っ向勝負すれば、絶対に勝てない。でも、商習慣も文化も独特で、まだ変化の余白が大きい日本でなら、1人あたりの付加価値で世界のトップクラスと張ることはできる。それを示すことこそ、これからのスタートアップに必要な役割だと思うんです。",{},{"id":489,"type":59,"data":490,"tunes":492},"D49_puXP_q",{"text":491,"align":62},"少数精鋭で大きな事業規模をつくり、あらゆる企業から「模倣したい」と思われるくらい突き抜ける。それが、一番の貢献でありお返しなのかなと思っています。",{},{"id":494,"type":59,"data":495,"tunes":497},"jww1HpVRL0",{"text":496,"align":62},"\u003Cb>小川： \u003C/b>理想の関係をひと言で表すと、「高め合い」がしっくりきます。試行錯誤を重ねてなお5年10年かかる未来を、3年・1年・半年へと「ショートカット」する。その時間の圧縮も、高め合いの1つ。",{},{"id":499,"type":59,"data":500,"tunes":502},"O72wQ6Y-5U",{"text":501,"align":62},"一方で、僕自身は、「どうやって実現するか」の生き方・戦い方を学ぶことも多い。共通のカルチャーや価値観である「何を良しとするか」は共有したまま、事業を丁寧に育てるとはどういうことか。お客様と一緒にプロダクトを、世界を1つつくるとはどういうことか。その作法も、AIの活かし方も、カウシェから受け取っているものは大きい。",{},{"id":504,"type":59,"data":505,"tunes":507},"0iqu1eIz1o",{"text":506,"align":62},"知見の移転だけの話ではないんです。\u003Cb>感性でしか捉えられない景色\u003C/b>がある。組織の当事者として、その渦中に身を置くことでしか得られないものが、個人のレベルでも確かにある。それが一人ひとりを介して、組織と組織のあいだで混ざり合っていく。そうやって互いを引き上げていける関係こそ、僕にとっての理想だと思っています。",{},{"id":509,"type":91,"data":510,"tunes":519},"ZduPBdil06",{"caption":7,"asset":511},{"id":512,"file":513},"6a2zW0tFORP30E85VB9d8Z",{"url":514,"details":515,"fileName":518},"//images.ctfassets.net/7mrdlclm9xss/6a2zW0tFORP30E85VB9d8Z/e96a4ecf7e894c0a624b9fc549822412/260617_338_resized.jpg",{"size":516,"image":517},183602,{"width":49,"height":50},"260617_338_resized.jpg",{},{"id":521,"type":59,"data":522,"tunes":524},"tl-qjSevmV",{"text":523,"align":62},"0→1で生まれた事業が育ち、人と知見が循環し、また次の挑戦を生む――カウシェとDeNAの協業は、その循環が回り始めた現場だった。独立した経営を保ったまま、現場では濃く混ざり合う。「最も創造的なアライアンスとは何か」を問い続ける関係が、そこにはあった。",{},{"id":526,"type":59,"data":527,"tunes":529},"BUtaLnPBHo",{"text":528,"align":62},"※本記事掲載の情報は、公開日時点のものです。",{"wrapped":530},{"types":531},[532],"note",{"id":534,"type":59,"data":535,"tunes":538},"C20xp5Q_HN",{"text":536,"align":537},"執筆・編集：難波 静香　撮影：小堀 将生","RIGHT",{},"2.26.4","「出資して終わり」ではない。資金を入れ、人を送り、プロダクトや採用の現場で一緒に汗をかく。DeNAがスタートアップと組むとき、関わり方は深くまで踏み込む。0→1で生まれた事業を、育て、伸ばす。その後押しが、DeNAの掲げる「Delightを創造するエコシステム」を回していく一手になる。\n\nその協業先の一社が、買い物アプリを手掛ける「カウシェ」だ。従業員わずか39名で、際立った生産性を叩き出す急成長スタートアップ。DeNAはここに複数名を出向させ、プロダクト・採用・エンジニアリングの内側まで入り込んでいる。\n\n「最初、一人あたりの生産性を見て『嘘でしょ』と思いました」。DeNAからカウシェへ出向し、両社を内側から知る小川 篤史はそう振り返る。だが実際に中へ入って腹落ちしたのは、数字そのものではなく、その裏にある人と文化のほうだった。\n\nカウシェ代表・門奈 剣平氏が語る「なぜDeNAか」は、論理と感情の両方だ。事業シナジーも、資金のコミットメントも、もちろんある。だが突き詰めれば、最後はトップ同士の化学反応。独立経営はそのままに、現場では濃く混ざり合う。\n\n「最も創造的なアライアンスとは何か」を一緒に問う二人の対談から、その現場を解きほぐしていく。\n\nDeNAが掲げる「Delightを創造するエコシステム」――構想（Vision）と実装の速さ（Velocity）が噛み合って回るその状態は、スローガンではなく、こうしたひとつひとつの協業の積み重ねとして立ち上がっていく。本件は、その回転の一コマだ。\n\n「新しい生活圏」をつくる買い物アプリ\n\n―― カウシェについて教えてください。\n\n門奈 剣平（以下、門奈）： 僕たちは「新しい生活圏のカタチをつくる」というビジョンを掲げて、買い物アプリ『カウシェ』を運営しています。食品・日用品・化粧品といった日常的に必要なものが、割引価格で並んでいる。そこに、遊び心のある体験がたくさん入っているのが特徴です。\n\n▲門奈 剣平（もんな けんぺい） 株式会社カウシェ 代表取締役CEO。「Relux」を運営するLoco Partnersに創業期参画し海外事業責任者・中国支社長を務めた後、2020年カウシェを創業。「100人で1兆円」を掲げ、AI活用による高生産性経営を実践中。\n\n門奈： たとえば、アプリの中で野菜を育てる。すると、その野菜の実物が無料で手元に届く。気づいたらアプリ内を回遊していて、「私、こんなもの欲しいかも」となっていく。そんなサービスです。\n\n―― 従業員1人あたりの売上総利益が700万→1,300万円／月へと約2倍に伸び続けています。何がこの「上がり続ける生産性」を生んでいるんでしょう。\n\n（2026年5月末時点・速報値）\n\n門奈： 商品を検索する買い物から、来るとつい欲しいものに出合える体験へと転換した、ビジネスのあり方に違いがあります。\n\nリアル店舗のように商品を手作業で並べる必要がありませんし、大手ECサイトが1万人くらいで運営しているような仕組みを、次世代のソフトウェアサービスとして39人体制でかなり軽量につくれている、というのがベースになっています。\n\nDeNAの元プロデューサーもゾクゾク。カウシェのUXという「熱狂」の正体\n\n―― いまは採用畑の小川さんですが、原点はDeNAでゲームの収益を背負うプロデューサーでした。「プレイヤーをどう楽しませるか」の最前線を走ってきた“越境者”の目に、カウシェのUXはどう映りましたか。\n\n小川 篤史（以下、小川）： 「このサービスは◯◯です」って、言い表しにくいんですよ。「検索より発見」型ECとも言えるし、農園ゲームとも言える。でも「ECを軸にしたゲーム」なのか「ゲームが軸のEC」なのか。どれも感覚が違う。全部ひっくるめて1つのUXとして成立している。ゲームでUXを扱ってきた感覚からしても、これは相当に緻密で繊細で、正直ゾクゾクしました。\n\n▲小川 篤史（おがわ あつし） カウシェ 採用担当（DeNAより出向）。DeNA新卒入社後、ゲームプロデューサー、新卒採用責任者、川崎ブレイブサンダースのマーケティングを歴任し、2026年5月よりカウシェに出向中。\n\n小川： 一瞬ドーパミンがぐっと出るエクストリームな感情って、事業にしやすいし収益化しやすいと思います。でもカウシェは、そのエクストリームさじゃなくて、もっと人間らしい、日常の中にある感情に寄り添うUXになっている。穏やかなUXと、一見矛盾しそうなんですけど、カウシェでは裏表で同居している。\n\nともすれば「あったら嬉しいけど、どうマネタイズするの？」が難しいところを、絶妙に成立させている。「こんな世界があるのか？」って驚きですよね。\n\n「嘘でしょ」―― なぜ毎日、カウシェを開いてしまうのか。熱狂を生むプロダクトの裏側\n\n門奈： カウシェのお客様の平均滞在時間は38分。そして全体のうち50%のお客様は滞在時間が1日50分なんです*。「1日50分」と聞くと長く感じるかもしれない。でも実際のショッピングモールに行ったら、歩いているうちに催し物を見つけたりして、50分なんてあっという間ですよね。\n\nこの濃度と密度は、ソフトに、ハードルを低く、フレンドリーにしていくほど、かえって大きな市場を受け入れやすくなると考えています。\n\n小川： アプリを触っていて、嫌なストレスがないんです。「野菜育てたいな」とアプリを開いて、気づいたら商品を眺めていて、「これ、デスクに置いて小腹が空いたとき助かるな」と買っている。\n\nあと、レビューの空気感がすごく温かいんですよね。「近所の人と立ち話する」みたいな世界線がある。「あなたのおかげで買えました」と感謝が行き交うUXになっています。\n\n門奈： いまの世の中は、交流の場が減ってきていますよね。買い物も、1人で行って1人で完結して帰ってくるシングルタスクになっています。\n\nサービスとしては、困りごとの解決だけでは限界が来るんです。どれだけ「買い物をしなくても、毎日来たくなる場所」になれるか。知らない方同士でもちょっと井戸端っぽさを感じられる場を、意図してつくっています。\n\n―― その体験の密度が、「生産性」につながっていく。\n\n門奈： 一見関係なく見えて、実はかなり大事で。交流の場、滞在時間、良質な行動ログがプロダクトの資産として溜まっていて、それをもとに、たとえば商品のレコメンドのような事業活動がモデルとして成立している。\n\n労働集約型じゃないし、価値提供と事業活動が同じベクトルでそろっている。これが、生産性を高める土台です。ちょうど先日のIVS2026（国内最大級のスタートアップカンファレンス）にて南場さんの講演でも発表がありましたが、1人あたりの売上総利益を算出したら、（月1,300万円の）年換算で約1.6億円でした。\n\n小川： 最初、一人あたりの生産性を見て「嘘でしょ」と思いました。しかも、皆さん、めちゃくちゃAIを活用していますよね。DeNAもAIに旗を振っていますが、「AIネイティブってこういうことか」と、来てびっくりしたぐらいで。それが1人あたりの売上総利益の伸びにも結びついているのかなと思いました。\n\n若手からベテランまで。「カウシェ×DeNA」で起こるキャリアの化学反応\n\n―― 小川さんは両方を知る立場で、仕事のしやすさに違いはありましたか。\n\n小川： 違う会社なのに、いい意味でカルチャーギャップがなくて。自分らしく仕事をさせてもらえています。DeNAでいう「ことに向かう」みたいなことを、息を吸うように無意識に、カウシェの皆さんがやっている。変化への渇望、柔軟性、そこへ向かうスピード感も、ギャップがない。\n\nなんならスピードに関しては、振り落とされないよう日々アジャストが必要なほど、カウシェのほうが速いと率直に感じます。総じて言うと「プレッシャーだけど、ノンストレス」。\n\n―― DeNAからは、どんな人が、どんな役割で来ているんでしょう。\n\n小川： 領域はさまざまで、プロダクト開発の企画・分析、デザイナー・エンジニア、プロダクトマーケティング、採用・人事など。年次は、若手もいればシニアもいます。\n\nそういえば、僕からも、門奈さんに聞いてみたかったんですよ。「DeNAから来ている人たちを、どう感じていますか」って。\n\n門奈： 求めていたのは、プロダクト・エンジニアリングのリソース支援と、知見の支援。とりわけ、さきほどの良質な行動ログが効く領域は機械学習との相性が良く、その専門人材にも来てほしかった。実際、皆さんが深いところに入って活躍していて、会社の変化を起こす大きな一手になったと感じています。\n\n門奈氏はDeNAのどこに未来を見たか。スタートアップが「テック大企業」と組む意味\n\n―― DeNAへの印象は、昔と今でどう変わりました？\n\n門奈： 正直、昔は武闘派のイメージが強かったです。「やるかやられるか」みたいな（笑）。でも皆さんと、ことに向かいながら融合していく過程で、印象は変わってきました。\n\n実は、カウシェの約6年の歴史の初期から、コアメンバーにDeNA出身の方が結構いたんですよ。10〜20人規模のうち数名がDeNA出身で、直接来てくれた方もいましたし、他社を経てきてくれた方もいました。\n\nそんなご縁もあったうえに、会社としてまだ何もないところから、DeNAグループでスタートアップ投資を手がけるベンチャーキャピタル「デライト・ベンチャーズ（Delight Ventures）」を通じて南場さんに注目していただいて。スタートアップ界でも珍しい3度の投資をしていただき、そこからDeNA本体側で投資・事業開発を統括する住吉さんと議論を重ね、2026年3月に資本業務提携の発表に至りました。\n\nスタートアップ業界でDeNA出身のファウンダー・CEOが増えていることからも、DeNAは武闘派というより、“起業家を輩出する会社”なんだ、と映るようになりました。\n\nスタートアップが、テック大企業の資産・人材・データを積みながら、身軽に機動的に飛んでいく。それが本当に実現するかもしれない。もしかしたら、それが南場さんの狙っていることなのかもしれないな、というのが現在地です。\n\n「クオリティが伴ったスピードが命」。カウシェの採用が選ぶ、爪痕を残す人材\n\n―― 採用を預かる立場として、カウシェに「合う人」「合わない人」は。\n\n小川： 大きく抽象化すると2つで。1つは、スピード。それも、「雑でもいいから速く」じゃなくて、「クオリティへのこだわりは一切妥協しない」人。\n\n2ヶ月後には事業の状況が全然変わる。そのダイナミックさの中では、組織も個人もそのスピードでやらないと成り立たない。これまで培ってきた知見を活かしつつも、「今のままの自分じゃダメだ」というマインド。ある方には桃源郷だし、アンマッチを感じる方もいると思います。\n\nもう1つは、「この勝ち馬に乗りたい」だと多分合わない。そうじゃなくて、「自分たちが世の中に爪痕を残すんだ」、という気概を持つ人が合うと思います。\n\n門奈： 僕からも聞いてみたかったんですけど、小川さん自身は、カウシェへの出向の話を聞いたとき、どう感じたんですか？\n\n小川： 新卒入社からずっとDeNAにいて、カウシェのことは輪の中で耳にはしていました。でも、名前は知っていたけれど、なぜそんなにホットなのかまでは理解していなかった。\n\n去年、住吉さんから「社内どころか日本で一番おもろいプロダクトがある」とお声をいただいたんです。ただ正直、出向の話をもらった時点では「二つ返事でやります」とはなっていませんでした。カウシェを自分で触っていくなかで、「確かによくできている」とは思ったけど、「なんでこんなに伸びるのか」は、わからなかった。だからこそワクワクしました。\n\nあと、僕は「何をやるか」と同じぐらい、「誰と、どんな状況でやるか」を重視するタイプなんです。門奈さんの語り口は独特で（笑）、プロダクトのどこが面白くてユニークか、そして事業が伸びる渦中で個人がどう成長していくか、その両方が立体的に伝わってくる。聞いているうちに、自然と引き込まれていきました。\n\n僕は、熱量の高い場を求める一方で、ストレスには強くないんです。プレッシャーも目指すものもなければ、心地よくても、いつか退屈してしまう。逆に、ストレスが過ぎれば参ってしまう。その「熱はあるのに、過度なストレスはない」という塩梅が、カウシェにはありそうだと感じたんです。\n\n―― 飛び込んでみて、「想像に近かったこと」と「違ったこと」は。\n\n小川： 近かったのは、チームに内包された熱さ。期待以上でした。違ったのは、いい意味でDeNAとカウシェ両方の顔を持つ中での距離感です。\n\n本来なら、一定の距離があるパートナーとしてドライにやる形もありえる。でも実際は、「このプロダクトをどれだけ伸ばすか」に両者でピュアに向かえている。要求すべきは要求し、できないことは「できない」と言い、できることは「こうやればできる」と返せる。一方通行じゃない。気を使う線やマナーはもちろんありますが、これほど近い体感で組めるのは想像以上でした。\n\n独立経営×DeNAアセット。門奈氏が明かす、DeNAと握手した本当の理由\n\n―― 組む相手はほかにもいたはずです。なぜDeNAと握手したんでしょう。\n\n門奈： 「なぜDeNAか」は、論理と感情の両方の話です。論理でいえば、事業シナジーもキャッシュのコミットメントも、もちろん定量で存在する。でも突き詰めると、最後はトップ同士の化学反応。少し先に見ている景色（ビュー）が合うかどうかに行き着くんですよね。やりながら立ち上がってくるパートナーシップは、このグルーヴが合うかで、長期の勝敗が決まる。\n\n象徴的だったのが、資本業務提携のバランス感でした。カウシェはあくまで独立した経営のまま、意思決定はほぼ僕たちに委ねられている。そのうえで、現場には濃い協働がある。「どの形がもっとも創造的なアライアンスか」を一緒に考えてくれる――ここまで来ると、もう「どこと比較するか」という話からは飛び出しています。\n\n正直、「大企業の人材やデータをフルに活用して、スタートアップとして身軽に飛び上がる」というのは紛れもない本音です。成熟した事業と新規の事業の“あいだ”の成長フェーズは、そう多くは転がっていない経験で、そこへ人材を送り、知見と学習を循環させる。双方にとって意味のある役回りだと思う。だから「20年後、30年後も、20人くらいの精鋭を送り続けてくださいね」という感じで（笑）。\n\nもしこの記事をスタートアップ業界の方が読んでくださっているなら、ぜひ、一緒に飛び込んでいく仲間を、時間をかけてでも見つけていく。その刺激になれば嬉しいです。\n\n「100人で1兆円」へ。カウシェ×DeNA、協業の先\n\n―― 最後に。カウシェが「目指す姿」と、お二人にとっての「理想的な関係」を。\n\n門奈： 僕たちは「100人で1兆円」を標榜しています。事業・ビジネスモデル・組織のスケーリング、労働集約のバランスを徹底して意識し、日本では類を見ない付加価値・生産性を生む少数精鋭の組織をつくっていく。\n\n起業前、僕は8年間スタートアップにいました。当時は「夢はあるが報酬は二の次」という人だけが行く世界だった。でもAIの風が吹くいま、その定説のままでは人材のプールが広がらない。「大企業や外資・コンサルのほうが条件がいい」に対して、自分たちの地力で対等な条件を出し、選んでもらえる状態をつくる。それでこそ、より多様なキャリア・ライフステージの人が入り、産業に厚みが出る。\n\nアメリカや中国とヘッドカウントで真っ向勝負すれば、絶対に勝てない。でも、商習慣も文化も独特で、まだ変化の余白が大きい日本でなら、1人あたりの付加価値で世界のトップクラスと張ることはできる。それを示すことこそ、これからのスタートアップに必要な役割だと思うんです。\n\n少数精鋭で大きな事業規模をつくり、あらゆる企業から「模倣したい」と思われるくらい突き抜ける。それが、一番の貢献でありお返しなのかなと思っています。\n\n小川： 理想の関係をひと言で表すと、「高め合い」がしっくりきます。試行錯誤を重ねてなお5年10年かかる未来を、3年・1年・半年へと「ショートカット」する。その時間の圧縮も、高め合いの1つ。\n\n一方で、僕自身は、「どうやって実現するか」の生き方・戦い方を学ぶことも多い。共通のカルチャーや価値観である「何を良しとするか」は共有したまま、事業を丁寧に育てるとはどういうことか。お客様と一緒にプロダクトを、世界を1つつくるとはどういうことか。その作法も、AIの活かし方も、カウシェから受け取っているものは大きい。\n\n知見の移転だけの話ではないんです。感性でしか捉えられない景色がある。組織の当事者として、その渦中に身を置くことでしか得られないものが、個人のレベルでも確かにある。それが一人ひとりを介して、組織と組織のあいだで混ざり合っていく。そうやって互いを引き上げていける関係こそ、僕にとっての理想だと思っています。\n\n0→1で生まれた事業が育ち、人と知見が循環し、また次の挑戦を生む――カウシェとDeNAの協業は、その循環が回り始めた現場だった。独立した経営を保ったまま、現場では濃く混ざり合う。「最も創造的なアライアンスとは何か」を問い続ける関係が、そこにはあった。\n\n※本記事掲載の情報は、公開日時点のものです。\n\n執筆・編集：難波 静香　撮影：小堀 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